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There is wind where the rose was,
Cold rain where sweet grass was,
And clouds like sheep
Stream o'er the steep
Grey skies where the lark was.

Nought warm where your hand was,
Nought gold where your hair was,
But phantom, forlorn,
Beneath the thorn,
Your ghost where your face was.

Cold wind where your voice was,
Tears, tears where my heart was,
And ever with me,
Child, ever with me,
Silence where hope was.

November by Walter de la Mare
August
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Tourism - a good or bad thing?

1246

Comments

  • viciumartisviciumartis Posts: 65 ✭✭
    > @Practical_Severard said:
    > > @Practical_Severard said:
    > Lazyness of locals there who refuse to work on a same conditions..we from continental part of the country oftenly took the jobs that mediterians would not accept to do it..
    >
    > I think lazyness is the unwillingness to work in general not the unwillingness to work on specific conditions, especially if the person has a better opportunity.
    > ..without proper essentials (washmachines, air conditions, food).
    >
    > That's really sad. But the very thing that those coastal employers are there is really important, because it means more demand for labour what, it turn, makes finding a job a bit easier, and, if the Croation economy grew, there would be shortage for labour and the poor work conditions would go.
    > ..almost 400.000 people from Croatia looking for basic that are unable to find here..in a period of 10 years, if you count only work eligible people..
    >
    > Could the service sector grow? Such as I was told that the Croation petrol stations worked only till 10 p.m., while here most of them work 24/7 and many have attendants who actually fill the cars. I'm not saying these jobs and the work environments are enviable, but they're manageable and help some people to earn their piece of bread. 24/7 groceries could help even more.
    > we dont count kids..academic people on a daily basis are sick of it and they are leaving..regardless of profession..
    >
    > What does the government do to attract foreign employers? Lower wages is an economic advantage.

    that is a part of our problem that we close restauarnts and other tourist wanted areas about 10:00PM, and we vary about defintion of lazyness because we dont really have big labour market altough it sounds very unhuman for me..(labour market)..only capitalyst would brought something like this

    Goverment increased VAT in tourist sectors..yes our rimeminister is fluent in english and french but that does not help us a lot..

    Only retorical garbage and talent to avoid real problems
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't think Nepal is alone, but people in many countries have little faith in their governments and the economic security of their country. And then of course there is often the idea that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence @viciumartis. Sadly what many migrant workers forget is that life is usually a lot more than just the wage packet at the end of the week. Having friends, family and a life that you are happy with are also very important.

    But these people are not tourists. Tourists normally are visitors who go to places at their leisure, to see what it is like but not to work. I think almost everywhere that has visas to enter stipulate that on a tourist visa it is prohibited to work!
  • viciumartisviciumartis Posts: 65 ✭✭
    [quote="mheredge;c-268472"]I don't think Nepal is alone, but people in many countries have little faith in their governments and the economic security of their country. And then of course there is often the idea that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence @viciumartis. Sadly what many migrant workers forget is that life is usually a lot more than just the wage packet at the end of the week. Having friends, family and a life that you are happy with are also very important.

    But these people are not tourists. Tourists normally are visitors who go to places at their leisure, to see what it is like but not to work. I think almost everywhere that has visas to enter stipulate that on a tourist visa it is prohibited to work![/quote]

    @mheredge

    manny people who got tourist visa, working also so that is also a sign that you can avoid something and be part of grey economy

    Yes, i agree about the grass and sky, i always had statement that the grass is green everywhere and sky blue also..there is climatic differences but..this is not the point here.

    we often forget, that wages is part of life not only thing you need..

    we have monthly wages, not weekly..
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    The problem with working on a tourist visa @viciumartis is that as this is against the law, if you get caught, you could face not only jail or a fine, but being thrown out of the country. Everywhere things are being tightened up, so it is increasingly risky, especially if you are in the country with your family.
  • walterwalter Posts: 683 ✭✭✭
    @GemmaRowlands say:
    Oh I agree that working smart is much better than working hard - but you do have to be willing to put some hard work in sometimes if you want to succeed.

    @lisa I agree with both, I also always in each job which is important to me I work hard. If I know so so, some program which can help to me to finished this job earlier, regardless again I work sometimes at harder way because that way know to be much safety for me.
  • viciumartisviciumartis Posts: 65 ✭✭
    @mheredge

    but people unfortunatley are willing to risk all of those things..i dont encourage anibody to do so..

    but waiting on the other hand if you will and how long does it take for work permission visa is time consuming factor people sonetimes cant afford because they
    are stucked..

    this is where society fails..
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018

    @mheredge

    but people unfortunatley are willing to risk all of those things..i dont encourage anibody to do so..
    but waiting on the other hand if you will and how long does it take for work permission visa is time consuming factor people sonetimes cant afford because they
    are stucked..
    this is where society fails..

    Taking into account what you've said about the Croation situation, and the fact that Croatia is neither a big country nor a advantageously located one, nor rich with mineral resources, Croatians have few options other than work abroad even if it's illegal.
    But what about offshore programming in Croatia? I also think it would be a nice place to have an office developing some software: close to Italy (2 hours by boat to Venice) and Germany, sea, mild climate.
  • lisalisa Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭
  • viciumartisviciumartis Posts: 65 ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    @Practical_Severard
    Big investitors are avoiding Croatia, altough i must point out the fact that we are rich with drinking water and curious to them, taxes and administrative work is too big hassle..we i dare to say are located very good but then again, some are doing those things but not all of us are in IT sectors and programming..

    i am not against abroad working, i am against the laws and politicians that made abroad working unwanted, unpleasant but mandatory if you want basics..

    much more positive feedbacks then negative, majority are reborn, started a new life, they tasted the respect, acceptance, good working atmosphere..so it is not black or white..not just bad or good..
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭✭

    @Practical_Severard

    Big investitors are avoiding Croatia, altough i must point out the fact that we are rich with drinking water and curious to them, taxes and administrative work is too big hassle..we i dare to say are located very good but then again, some are doing those things but not all of us are in IT sectors and programming...

    Well, whatever the common situation is, it means almost nothing for a specific person. Such as some Americans have related a story of their launching of a realty agency somewhere in the USA. They worked hard for year struggling to remain afloat but at the end they managed to have the business established. In a short time they got invited to an industry conference where everybody was moaning about a last year's sales crisis. And guess what? Those novices hadn't notice that there had been a crisis. This means that a crisis has its place in people's heads, first and foremost. As attributed to Napoleon I: "on s'engage, et puis on voit" -- 'just engage in a battle and you'll see what to do'.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    As more people have more disposable income, then there will be more tourism. The problem is when there is too much tourism. This appears to be a growing problem in many popular cities like Barcelona, where local people are starting not to welcome tourists as much as before.
  • amatsuscribbleramatsuscribbler Posts: 3,077 mod
    Perhaps we should virtual tourism instead. Via Second Life or similar programme.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    This would be real armchair travel @amatsuscribbler.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    I have enjoyed seeing how domestic tourism is growing in Nepal. It's wonderful seeing local people enjoying their free time visiting places in their own country. It's quite a new development.
  • lisalisa Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭
    @mheredge The development of domestic tourism is a huge symbol of the improvement of local people. I still remember it was very expensive to have a domestic tourism when I was a child, and few people of our village visited the historical sites which are very near to our hometown, however, nowadays, domestic tourism is a common activity for the villagers of my hometown, they prefer to drive their own cars to do the domestic tourism with their families.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes it is a very good sign @lisa. More and more people have spare time and money to go and enjoy themselves. Even if they are not travelling far, they are going out and seeing other places.
  • walterwalter Posts: 683 ✭✭✭
    My country has a lot of beautiful places, but I visited only few. That is shame for me, but I hope that I will in future visit more this beautiful places which my country has.
  • lisalisa Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭
    @mheredge Yes, they have realized to enjoy lives rather than only earning money.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    I have met five women who are settling up a small community homestay project in a small town in the Everest region that normally does not get much benefit from tourism despite being not far from one of the most popular trekking routes in the world. Hopefully we can encourage people to visit and enjoy the beautiful countryside here, which should appeal to those who don't want to venture so high, or trek so far, but still want to experience the culture and magnificent scenery there.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    It was a shame but the ladies who were supposed to perform their traditional dances at 3pm this afternoon, who still had not arrived two hours later, had to be told that the performance was cancelled. The guide was infuriated as he'd asked them early in the morning if this time was suitable and we'd rushed back not to be late ourselves. He hoped that maybe by cancelling rather than than letting them perform very late, they might learn by it, as they all would have earned some money by being more punctual.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    I have seen a lot of promotion of cruises lately. However these are very unsustainable, not only in terms of pollution, but the economic benefits that they do or don't provide to the places where they visit.

    Have any of you been on a cruise?
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    I have seen a lot of promotion of cruises lately. However these are very unsustainable, not only in terms of pollution, but the economic benefits that they do or don't provide to the places where they visit.

    Have any of you been on a cruise?

    I haven't, but to be honest I would love to try one. They just look so relaxing, and you get to see so many different places. But it's unlikely I will be able to afford one any time soon.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    I love going on the sea but I hate the idea of how bad cruises are for the environment and also for the places that they visit, as very little of the money spent goes to these stop-off points. I somehow feel very bad about this form of tourism.
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    I love going on the sea but I hate the idea of how bad cruises are for the environment and also for the places that they visit, as very little of the money spent goes to these stop-off points. I somehow feel very bad about this form of tourism.

    To be honest, I've never even thought about it from this point of view, but now that you've mentioned it, it's obvious that it would be bad for the environment.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    I suppose I have always been in favour of tourism that helps local people @GemmaRowlands. Tourism is one of the biggest industries in the world, with a trickle-down effect that can benefit a lot of people. However all-inclusive holiday packages like the kind you find going to places like Goa or The Gambia, where you pay for everything up front are the worst. Usually only a small percent will reach the economy of the place you are in (salaries of poorly paid chambermaids) and that's about it.

    This is why I like working with Community Homestays in Nepal (www.communityhomestay.com) as there nearly all the money spent by tourists actually goes to the families and local communities where they stay.

  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    I suppose I have always been in favour of tourism that helps local people @GemmaRowlands. Tourism is one of the biggest industries in the world, with a trickle-down effect that can benefit a lot of people. However all-inclusive holiday packages like the kind you find going to places like Goa or The Gambia, where you pay for everything up front are the worst. Usually only a small percent will reach the economy of the place you are in (salaries of poorly paid chambermaids) and that's about it.

    This is why I like working with Community Homestays in Nepal (www.communityhomestay.com) as there nearly all the money spent by tourists actually goes to the families and local communities where they stay.

    Yes, I always like to think that I am somehow helping at least some of the local people when I choose to travel anywhere.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    On the other hand, I tend to see AirBnB as causing a lot of problems for local people as properties are let out to tourists on short term lets over the holiday period, making them unavailable for longer term rentals to people wanting to live and work in the area. Even by placing limits on the time allowed to rent to AirBnB like in a few places like Amsterdam, this doesn't really solve the problem.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,747 ✭✭✭✭
    I think this sort of tourism is very sustainable. Apart from being very healthy for the rider, it doesn't cause emissions and the benefits are spread across local communities that offer food and lodging @Paulette.
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