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"The April rain, the April rain,
Comes slanting down in fitful showers,
Then from the furrow shoots the grain,
And banks are fledged with nestling flowers;
And in grey shawl and woodland bowers
The cuckoo through the April rain
Calls once again."

Mathilde Blind, April Rain
Learn English in March

Marianne's Tuesday 18 February session: Narcissism and incompetence

mheredgemheredge Posts: 42,617 ✭✭✭✭
Weeks ago @Tagheid suggested to me a couple of very interesting five minute TED talks on how people perceive their competency and on narcissism.

Research suggests that we're not very good at evaluating ourselves accurately and we frequently overestimate our own abilities. We often judge ourselves as better than others. On average, people tend to rate themselves better than most in all kinds of skills and disciplines. However those with the least ability are often the most likely to overrate their skills to the greatest extent. People lacking knowledge and skill in particular areas suffer a double curse: they make mistakes and reach poor decisions; those same knowledge gaps prevent them from noticing their errors. Poor performers lack the very expertise needed to recognize how badly they're doing.

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_dunning_why_incompetent_people_think_they_re_amazing?rid=vYXmX6MDYL6j


The psychological definition of narcissism is an inflated, grandiose self-image. To varying degrees, narcissists think they're better looking, smarter, and more important than other people, and that they deserve special treatment. Grandiose narcissism is characterized by extroversion, dominance, and attention seeking. Often we see examples who are politicians, celebrities, or cultural leaders. However, vulnerable narcissists can be quiet and reserved but they have a strong sense of entitlement, and feel easily threatened or slighted.

https://www.ted.com/talks/w_keith_campbell_the_psychology_of_narcissism?rid=hLFcwh7qJrFe

If you have time before the session, check the vocabulary in the transcripts.

Comments

  • Shiny03Shiny03 Posts: 2,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was preparing a tirade of how I think of TED talks these days. But I quit. Because I don't want to be annoying. Anyway, in short, this Dunning–Kruger effect isn't quite accurate and is merely a theory. Furthermore, it lacks different aspects of time, society, gender and so many other things, especially differences in cultural self-perception.
    Here it's the summary: Incompetent people think they're amazing, average people think they're not good enough, and competent people think that all other people are well informed just like them. Speechless! Are humans really that simple?
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 42,617 ✭✭✭✭
    Five minute talks perhaps simplify things too much and as you show, it is not saying much more than what is obvious @Shiny03. I think TED talks can be more useful for practicing listening and seeing vocabulary that relates to specific topics than necessarily for insights, although some can sometime provide useful information.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 42,617 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks everyone for an interesting discussion.

    @Alexandra made an interesting comment to start off the discussion that had me laughing.

    "The psychological phenomenon of illusory superiority was identified as a form of cognitive bias in Kruger and Dunning's 1999 study, "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments".The identification derived from the cognitive bias evident in the criminal case of McArthur Wheeler, who robbed banks while his face was covered with lemon juice, which he believed would make it invisible to the surveillance cameras. This belief was based on his misunderstanding of the chemical properties of lemon juice as an invisible ink."

    Self-professed experts
    Sales staff - experts on the product they want you to buy.
    What is an expert? - Someone who is very knowledgeable about a particular subject.
    Narcissism - obsessed with themselves
    narcissistic - someone who thinks the world revolves around them
    Difference between narcissism and egoism - Egocentrism is the inability to differentiate between self and other. ... Although egocentrism and narcissism appear similar, they are not the same. A person who is egocentric believes they are the center of attention, like a narcissist, but does not receive gratification by one's own admiration. In egocentrism, you're unable to see someone else's point of view; but in narcissism, you see that view but not care about it. People high in narcissism may even become annoyed when others fail to see things their way.

    “Narcissist” is not a synonym for “egotist” or “egoist.” Narcissism is “excessive interest in one's own appearance, comfort, importance, abilities, etc.” There is no implied sense of superiority, only a fixation. ... It's the “egotists” that you really have to watch out for.

    In Psychology Today the article 'Narcissism and Social Media: Should We Be Afraid?' explores research that reveals a complex picture of the effects of social media on narcissism. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/digital-world-real-world/201909/narcissism-and-social-media-should-we-be-afraid

    How to recognise a narcissist: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-modern-heart/201906/10-surprising-ways-spot-narcissist-social-media
    10 Surprising Ways to Spot a Narcissist on Social Media
    Find out how to spot narcissists before you fall for them.

    @taghried, @Shiny03, @Reem, @Alexandra.
  • TeachTeach Your Teacher HomePosts: 10,401 mod
    @Shiny03 - Here is your correction:-

    I was preparing a tirade about what I think of TED talks these day, but I stopped myself, because I don't want to be annoying. Anyway, in short, this Dunning–Kruger effect isn't really accurate, and is merely a theory. Furthermore, it fails to take into account different aspects: time, society, gender and so many other things, especially differences in cultural self-perception.

    Here is a summary: Incompetent people think they're amazing, average people think they're not good enough, and competent people think that all other people are well informed just like them. Speechless! Are humans really that simple?
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 42,617 ✭✭✭✭
    Are humans really that simple?

    Is it my imagination @Teach, but every time I spend any time in the UK and watch British TV, it is so dumbed down from what I remember. Or is this just a faulty memory? Even the news seems to be so watered down.
  • taghriedtaghried Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    I listened to the broadcaster "Jenni Murray" In BBC, she hosted an expert in relationships.
    The expert was speaking about one kind of narcissism. She said, in the beginning, the narcissist will flatter you to attract and own you and once they have you, they are probably lost their interest and start to underestimate his partner.
    It's hard to recognize them especially at the beginning of the relationship.
    After a while, you'll start doubt your self_esteem as the narcissist manipulating you constantly.
    The expert suggested that if you decided to break up from the narcissist you have to ask assist from your family or your close friend to redefine yourself again positively.

    I think it takes a long time to help a narcissist to be normal as his appearance is quite charming but their real character or their traits are so vulnerable and insecure and I guess he will refuse to acknowledge that he is a narcissist!

  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 42,617 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2
    taghried said:

    I listened to a BBC broadcast of Jenni Murray, an expert in relationships.

    The expert spoke about one kind of narcissism. She said, in the beginning, the narcissist will flatter you to attract and own you and once they have you, they will probably lose their interest and start to underestimate you. It's hard to recognize them especially at the beginning of the relationship.

    After a while, you'll start doubt yourself as the narcissist is manipulating you constantly.

    The expert suggested that if you decided to break up from the narcissist you have to ask assistance from your family or a close friend to redefine yourself again positively.

    I think it takes a long time to help a narcissist to become normal as his appearance is quite charming but their real character or traits are so vulnerable and insecure, and I guess he will refuse to acknowledge that he is a narcissist!

    Do you think a narcissist even accepts that they are one @taghried? And even if they do, do you think that they have any desire to change?
  • taghriedtaghried Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    edited March 14
    My experience and knowledge are limited @mheredge so It was a good chance to google and picked out this article to know more about narcissism.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/201103/do-narcissists-know-they-are-narcissists

    It says, Narcissists have awareness of being that and embrace it.
    They are bragging themselves that they have positive traits of narcissism such as(physical attractive and funny...etc, and negative aspects of narcissism like (impulsive, arrogant,..etc.
    As well as they consider any criticism is a jealous act of critics.
    They will accept treatment as long as it goes with their goals.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 42,617 ✭✭✭✭
    taghried said:

    My experience and knowledge are limited @mheredge so It was a good chance to google and pick out this article to find out more about narcissism.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/201103/do-narcissists-know-they-are-narcissists

    It says narcissists have awareness of being that and embrace it.
    They are bragging to themselves that they have positive traits of narcissism such as physical attractiveness, being funny and so on, and negative aspects of narcissism like for example impulsiveness and arrogance.
    They consider any criticism is a jealous act of critics as well.
    They will accept treatment (for being narcissistic?) as long as it meets their goals.

    @taghried I always advise to avoid using 'etc' in speech and writing and to substitute it with 'and so on' or use 'for example' and list a few examples. It should be used sparingly and it more appropriate in academic and formal writing. And I advise not to use it in spoken English at all, if possible.
  • taghriedtaghried Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    Thank you @mheredge
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