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Beautiful December

Now, when the garden awaits the return of spring
Now, when the silence is deep and blue
Now, when the winter has cast her spell again
Beautiful December, Beautiful December

Here, where the snow is as soft as a woolly lamb
Here, where the nightfall is deep and blue,
Here, where the stars are so bright, you reach for them
Beautiful December, Beautiful December

Child, may you sleep in gentle peace tonight
Dream of songs that rise on silken wings!
When you wake, enchanted by the snowspun light
Sing the songs that came to you in dreams,
Your beautiful December dreams
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Ghosts: More science than superstition?

2

Comments

  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @NeuroMed Hello and welcome to the Learn English Forum!

    That is a good question.

    I think the first thing we have to do is answer 'what is a demon'? Is it a creature like an elf or a fairy, but a lot meaner and with horns and tails? Or are they symbolic representations of natural phenomenon?

    I personally do not believe in things like demon possessions. That is, when a person seems to have a demon living in them. I think that is a very aggressive form of mental illness. It is a confusion in the spirit of the person, not something that comes from another creature entering the body of a person.

    But kinetic energy, which makes poltergeists among other things, can be very powerful. It can levitate objects, it can throw objects, it can turn on and off lights, it can follow you, it can shake a bed, it can do a lot of the things we can see in Hollywood movies about ghosts.

    But what parapsychologists have discovered, is that these poltergeists normal center around only one person and they believe that it is this person who can -- perhaps unknowingly! -- create or control the poltergeist. That means: a person can collect moving energy around themselves, as if it was a hurricane or a tornado. Is that a demon? This moving energy around a single person?

    No matter what it is, fetch can be very frightening and even dangerous at times. So, could they be the same thing? Yes, they could be. But it all depends on your definition of what a demon is.
  • TinkaTinka Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭
    I talked with many people who have such kind of experiences, and I have them, too. Talking with dead relatives is very common experience and it’s in no way a hallucination, @Larry_the_Zebra. Dead relatives are still connected with us and they help us. In the most cases the contacts with them are extremely positive and supportive. They could react aggressive when they need our help (due to their faults on the Earth, for example), but usually they are supportive.

    Hallucinations are mainly negative and most people are scared of them.
    When talking with dead person people clearly know that other people in the same room maybe don’t see the dead relative they do. They can be aware of the spiritual reality of the dead person and at the same time they are clearly aware of the usual material surrounding. In the case of hallucinations people don’t distinguish between the reality and the hallucinatory sensations or images. They are convinced that everybody in the same room or place have to see the same scene as they see.

    If we talk with people during their contact with their dead relatives they can communicate in normal manner as they usually communicate. If we try to talk with people during their hallucinatory episode, the communication is difficult and lacks the normal insight into the topic of the communication.
  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    @Tinka Only dead relatives? The ghosts I met I have no relation to. They were strangers and the certainly didn't want to help me.
  • TinkaTinka Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭
    It could be, @Larry_the_Zebra, but it's not so common. Maybe it would be good to think about the question, what they wanted from you...
  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @Tinka

    I have the opposite opinion based on my personal experience and my experience working with those who study the paranormal (ghosts, hauntings, etc).

    Ghosts you don't know are far more common for you to meet -- as there are more of them in the world than your relatives! And, as I said in the preface above, there are several different types of ghosts -- they are not all the spirits of dead people!!

    I know what the ghosts wanted from me. They were VERY clear:

    The first ghost wanted me to leave HER house. She didn't understand she was dead and wanted all the strangers to leave! NOW! GET OUT!

    The second ghost wanted to know if there were any @!~* party members living in the area. He had an idea that he was dead, but wasn't sure. He thought it was still 1942 and he was terrified of @!~* informants.


    As I have said above in previous posts -- most spirits outside of bodies are either confused by what they see, because they do not know they are dead, or refuse to believe they are dead.

    It is not only me who says this! Almost all people who research the paranormal say the same thing. My personal experience supports this idea.

    What you are describing as 'ghosts of relatives' who help you I, personally, would say are what many Eastern religions call 'spirit guides' and what western religion terms 'guardian angels'. They could be a relative, but they don't have to be.

    Of course, if the belief in Slovenia is that they are your relatives, that's a nice thing to think! Why not? Spirit guides can take any shape they want. Why not a relative?? But too many other cultures also have the same idea, and not all of them believe they are dead relatives come back to help.
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod

    @Tinka



    I have the opposite opinion based on my personal experience and my experience working with those who study the paranormal (ghosts, hauntings, etc).



    Ghosts you don't know are far more common for you to meet -- as there are more of them in the world than your relatives! And, as I said in the preface above, there are several different types of ghosts -- they are not all the spirits of dead people!!



    I know what the ghosts wanted from me. They were VERY clear:



    The first ghost wanted me to leave HER house. She didn't understand she was dead and wanted all the strangers to leave! NOW! GET OUT!



    The second ghost wanted to know if there were any @!~* party members living in the area. He had an idea that he was dead, but wasn't sure. He thought it was still 1942 and he was terrified of @!~* informants.





    As I have said above in previous posts -- most spirits outside of bodies are either confused by what they see, because they do not know they are dead, or refuse to believe they are dead.



    It is not only me who says this! Almost all people who research the paranormal say the same thing. My personal experience supports this idea.



    What you are describing as 'ghosts of relatives' who help you I, personally, would say are what many Eastern religions call 'spirit guides' and what western religion terms 'guardian angels'. They could be a relative, but they don't have to be.



    Of course, if the belief in Slovenia is that they are your relatives, that's a nice thing to think! Why not? Spirit guides can take any shape they want. Why not a relative?? But too many other cultures also have the same idea, and not all of them believe they are dead relatives come back to help.

    I think it is sad that the ghost you met didn't realise she was dead.. if it is true, and we can stay around in that form when we die, there must be so many lost souls with so much confusion!
  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    @GemmaRowlands I agree.

    I often wonder what happens with people who overdose on drugs or die in an accident when they have taken something. If they do stick around...do they believe that what they see/experience as a ghost is simply part of their trip?
  • TinkaTinka Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭
    I think, there is a difference between the ‘ghosts of relatives’ and the 'guardian angels', @Larry_the_Zebra . However, I agree with you that there aren’t all ghosts the spirits of dead people, nor they aren’t all kind and loveable. Spiritual reality is far more complicated and our awareness of such a reality may vary, depending of our experiences, places, cultures, subcultures etc. I’m a little bit curious about your reactions when you encountered those unfriendly ghosts… What do you think, why they couldn't realise they are already dead?
  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    @Tinka According to most of the research I've read, it is easy to become confused if you are OVERLY concerned with something after death. because you can't let go of it. That explains the ghosts who wander around an accident site looking for their wife and children, for example.

    If you can't let go, then you can still observe that things around you are changing, and it simply confuses you more.

    I think the one ghost of the woman who wanted us all of leave was confused. She was mostly in the kitchen and the hallway. She stood in the doorways of the bedrooms and stared at us, but never came in. I think she was very protective of her kitchen and couldn't let go of it.

    The second ghost had almost no contact with people as he lived in an attic. I think he died in his sleep and simply stayed where he was out of fear of leaving the attic (he had been hiding there).

    Also, he was scared of ghosts! When I told him it was not 1942, but 2006, and told him all about what had happened in Germany since WWII, he started to get really nervous. I told him he had been dead for a while and although I could tell he believed me, he didn't want to. :)
  • takafromtokyotakafromtokyo Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @Larry_the_Zebra @Yellowtail @Tinka @GemmaRowlands

    Do you think ghosts can see each other? Or, talk to each other?

    The one I "saw" at the inn, I didn't technically "see" him since I was washing my hair with my eyes closed, never said anything. From the sound of the shower going off, I would assume he came into the bathroom alone, didn't bring his friends. If he had brought his friend that night, would you think I could have heard them talking to one another?
  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @takafromtokyo Great question. The ghosts that are tapes are sometimes in groups. There is a famous tape in the English city of York that shows a group of Roman soldiers walking in formation!

    However, if we are talking about the deceased......from what I've read from parapsychologists, yes, they can! What kind of a conversation would that be, I wonder? And do they get tired of each other's jokes after 100 years?
  • takafromtokyotakafromtokyo Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭
    @Larry_the_Zebra
    I'm sure they need to add some new twists to their repeated jokes from time to time, or they're going to die of boredom!
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭
    In Cambodia the dogs sometimes whine through the night, rather than bark. It's uncanny. Some people say it's to do with the spirits of the people killed in Pol Pot's genocide in the '70s when over a third of the population (1.5 million) people were killed.
  • takafromtokyotakafromtokyo Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭
    @mheredge
    Interesting! It's interesting because it tells us there's a possibility that dogs, or maybe some other animals, can sense, such as see or smell, the ghosts.

    @Larry_the_Zebra
    Since there seems to be a lot of evidences of "ghosts", and now that we can classify them into three main groups, I think it'll take us to a deeper analysis if we could distinguish them more clearly.
    I think what's preventing us understanding the phenomenon deeper mostly is that we still don't seem to have a case that can always be reproduced repeatedly. I've come across the incident at the inn, but it's still like a one-time deal. No one really believes me.

    As for the cases in my house, everyone in my family believes that the ghosts are sharing our little corridor with us, but each incident is different. Sometimes it's a dog, sometimes it's an old lady, sometimes it's a little girl, sometimes it's nothing.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure that animals can sense a lot of things that we humans don't pick up @takafromtokyo.
  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @takafromtokyo You've hit on the major problem in proving the existence of these things. To be 'scientifically proven' a phenomenon has to be able to be reproduced at will in a laboratory. Since so much of this is based on unique situations, or on time and place and the people involved, it's very difficult -- or impossible -- to reproduce at will in another place with different people. Therefore, it does not fit the framework of 'scientific'.

    Another problem is that many scientists who investigate these things are not like the X-files people. They DO NOT want to believe. They are normally out of prove it doesn't exist, or to give (for me) equally far-fetched explanations for ghostly events that are minorly insulting to the people who were involved in the event being explored.

    And yes, dogs are normally some of the first animals to pick up on a change in the environment. It is also said that nature goes quiet about 20 minutes before an earthquake, as well. No bird chirping, no sounds from any animals. They can tell something is coming.
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod

    @GemmaRowlands I agree.



    I often wonder what happens with people who overdose on drugs or die in an accident when they have taken something. If they do stick around...do they believe that what they see/experience as a ghost is simply part of their trip?

    That's really interesting, and it's a fantastic possibility! I suppose there must be a point where they realise that it's been going on for too long.. but then again I don't know what kind of concept of time the spirit world has anyway!
  • TinkaTinka Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭
    In the spirit world there is no need for any time. It’s just the present moment, @GemmaRowlands. So enjoy it now :)
  • takafromtokyotakafromtokyo Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭
    @Larry_the_Zebra @GemmaRowlands @Tinka @mheredge

    The biggest problem is that we tend to try to understand things from what we already know, but since "ghost phenomenon" are what are new to us, we can't understand them like we understand phenomenon such as boiling water or water turning into ice. I think we need a new method and a new scale.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭
    There is so much we still don't know @takafromtokyo about so many things. Humans are clever animals, but they still don't know everything!
  • YellowtailYellowtail Posts: 853 ✭✭✭✭
    Unfortunately (fortunately?) I have never seen a ghost. But I often go through sleep paralysis. And during it, I sometimes see someone creeping around in my room. I think it's something that has to be categorized to dream, since it occers only when I'm falling asleep and my head is not clear. But for some reason, it's always accompanied by loud shrieking sounds in my ears and a sense of intense fear, as if I were about to be killed. I wonder where the sensation comes from.
  • takafromtokyotakafromtokyo Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭
    @Yellowtail
    Do you run into this phenomenon at the same place in your house? Does it happen frequently? Is there any signs that you notice before it actually happens? Do you realize this while you're still sleeping or after you wake up?

    @Larry_the_Zebra
    What do you think about this phenomenon?

  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @takafromtokyo @Yellowtail

    You are right, Yellowtail. That's a state of conscience called the Alpha state. It's the point between being awake and being asleep. That means you can see and hear dream images while technically being 'awake'.

    It happens to me sometimes too. I have seen aliens in my kitchen, heard the sounds of whales coming from the next apartment, seen fairies flying around my bedroom, all sorts of strange things! Why the prowler? That could have two reasons:

    + In Alpha state you are 'interpreting' some energy floating pattern in your bedroom as a prowler.

    + It is something psychological. Just like in dreams where we work through problems and experiences. The prowler is a symbol of a problem you have and want to work through.

    With dream paralysis, I guess you mean that you are awake, but can't move your body? I've had that before too. Scary, isn't it? That is caused by the fact that you are more awake than your body. You are on the 'waking' end of the Alpha State, while your body is still on the 'sleeping' end....and it is frozen in place. Horrible feeling!
    Post edited by [Ex Member] on
  • takafromtokyotakafromtokyo Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭
    @Larry_the_Zebra @Yellowtail

    I think I've experienced these more when I was tired. I suppose that could give us some clue to understand this phenomenon?
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm glad I've never had this kind of dream @takafromtokyo and @Yellowtail. I do have vivid dreams though but rarely are they about anything scary or unpleasant.
  • [Ex Member][Ex Member] Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    @takafromtokyo

    I think I've experienced these more when I was tired. I suppose that could give us some clue to understand this phenomenon?

    I don't quite understand what you mean here. You see dream images when you are tired, but not resting?

  • takafromtokyotakafromtokyo Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @Larry_the_Zebra

    I think I've experienced more "dream paralysis" when I was tired than when I wasn't tired.

    There was a time a few years ago when I was all tired and stressed out, and during those times I remember experiencing dream paralysis frequently. I'd wake up, my eyes wide open, but can't move even a tip of my finger. I could move my eyes and I've seen something rising from beneath my bed. That's when I technically wake up only to realize it was just a dream.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,988 ✭✭✭✭
    I have occasionally woken up when I was having a 'bad' dream. I say 'bad' because I rarely have anything that I would call really bad, just maybe embarrassing or weird.
  • YellowtailYellowtail Posts: 853 ✭✭✭✭
    @takafromtokyo @Larry_the_Zebra
    Yeah, my paralysis is generally the same as yours. The moment I'm falling asleep, I find myself not being able to move, hearing the sound and seeing something weird in my room. And then I manage to get freed, and I end up to be fully awake. So of course it always occurs in my bedroom. @takafromtokyo
    I'm not sure if my eyes open at the time and the weird things are the actual view. If it's the latter category of those @Larry_the_Zebra showed, it will be just dream image.
    And it might be more often when I'm stressed or tired, as @takafromtokyo said.
  • mohit_singhmohit_singh Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I never thought that I am missing such an curious argument here.
    Really!
    You guys believe in ghosts! :o:o Everyone except @GemmaRowlands !
    Are you guys not ghosts? Let me confirm it first. I never read and seen such huge agreement of people on ghosts existence. Really! It's amazing that you guys believe on it.

    I never met any ghosts till now so I have reason to not to believe in it.But I believe in you guys!

    @mheredge @takafromtokyo @Larry_the_Zebra @Yellowtail @GemmaRowlands
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