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There is wind where the rose was,
Cold rain where sweet grass was,
And clouds like sheep
Stream o'er the steep
Grey skies where the lark was.

Nought warm where your hand was,
Nought gold where your hair was,
But phantom, forlorn,
Beneath the thorn,
Your ghost where your face was.

Cold wind where your voice was,
Tears, tears where my heart was,
And ever with me,
Child, ever with me,
Silence where hope was.

November by Walter de la Mare
August
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Can money buy happiness?

GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands ModeratorPosts: 10,331 mod
I think a lot of us think that if we had more money we would be a lot happier, but do you think that is the case? I do think that my life would be better if I could afford to do some more things, but I don't believe that just having money alone makes you happy.

What do you think? Do you think that money can buy happiness?
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Comments

  • SunInVirgoSunInVirgo Posts: 52 ✭✭
    Money help us to do what we want. To some extent, we may describe happiness as the result of satisfying of our wishes. So, from that point of view, money can make us a lot happier. As for me, freedom is one of integral conditions of happiness. And more money means more freedom. But I think that health is the fundamental condition of hapiness. As Schopenhauer said, "A healthy beggar is happier than an ailing king".
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod

    Money help us to do what we want. To some extent, we may describe happiness as the result of satisfying of our wishes. So, from that point of view, money can make us a lot happier. As for me, freedom is one of integral conditions of happiness. And more money means more freedom. But I think that health is the fundamental condition of hapiness. As Schopenhauer said, "A healthy beggar is happier than an ailing king".

    Yes I agree that money can bring freedom. If you don't have the money to buy things or to travel, it might often feel as though you're not free at all.
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭✭
    "Contented poverty is an honourable estate.” Indeed, if it be contented, it is not poverty at all. It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor. What does it matter how much a man has laid up in his safe, or in his warehouse, how large are his flocks and how fat his dividends, if he covets his neighbour’s property, and reckons, not his past gains, but his hopes of gains to come? Do you ask what is the proper limit to wealth? It is, first, to have what is necessary, and, second, to have what is enough.

    Seneca Epistles 2,3
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭✭
    Over dinner, Croesus posed a question: “Stranger of Athens, we have heard much of your wisdom, and of your travels through many lands, driven by your love of knowledge and a wish to see the world. I am curious therefore and want to ask you — Who, of all the people you have encountered, do you consider the most happy?”

    Of course the king thought Solon would instantly answer that he, Croesus, was the happiest man he had ever met, on account of his power and wealth.

    Instead Solon thought a little while and answered. “Tellus of Athens, my Lord”

    “What!? Who on earth is Tellus of Athens? Why is he the happiest?”

    “His community was flourishing in his days,” said Solon. “Tellus had sons both beautiful and of good character. He lived to see children born to each of them, and these children all grew up. What’s more, after a life spent in what our people look upon as comfort, his end was surpassingly glorious. In a battle between the Athenians and their neighbours near Eleusis, he came to the assistance of his friends, and died as he protected them. The Athenians gave him a public funeral on the spot where he fell, and paid him the highest honours.”

    “But he’s dead”, said Croesus.
    [...]

    “Lord Croesus, you asked me a question concerning a condition of humankind — happiness. I reckon 70 years to be a long life. Of those 26,250 days, no two will be the same. We are wholly accident. Good fortune is always mixed with misery. In the journey of our lives there is an infinity of twists and turns, and the weather can change from calm to whirlwind in an instant. We can never know what might come next. The gods are jealous and like to mess with mortals. Sometimes we get a glimpse of happiness, and then are plunged into ruin. Yes you are fortunate, wonderfully rich, lord of many peoples. But with respect to the question you asked, I have no answer, until I hear that you have closed your life happily.
    Link
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod

    "Contented poverty is an honourable estate.” Indeed, if it be contented, it is not poverty at all. It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor. What does it matter how much a man has laid up in his safe, or in his warehouse, how large are his flocks and how fat his dividends, if he covets his neighbour’s property, and reckons, not his past gains, but his hopes of gains to come? Do you ask what is the proper limit to wealth? It is, first, to have what is necessary, and, second, to have what is enough.

    Seneca Epistles 2,3
    I agree with this a lot. It is all about being happy with what you have, and if you can do that then it doesn't really matter if you don't have as much as other people have.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    I think often the richest people are far from being the happiest.
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭✭
    mheredge said:

    I think often the richest people are far from being the happiest.

    The thing what is good in being rich is that such people can devote their time and effort for not earning their bread and shelter, but for changing the world to be a better or a more beatiful place. Though, not all of them do this.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    Unfortunately most rich people seem to just want more and devote their time to getting richer @Practical_Severard!
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭✭
    mheredge said:

    Unfortunately most rich people seem to just want more and devote their time to getting richer @Practical_Severard!

    Some really do, some don't. Such as the boss says that the Russian orphanages can become extinct as an institution within a decade or so, since there are many wealthy people who wish to change the world for better by taking as foster child any reasonably healthy little orphan. And there's a fierce competition for them.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    That is good if people are keen to take in orphans like that @Practical_Severard. I had a friend who's husband was a banker and they though she did not need to work, she did so 'for something to do.' She also used to foster children. This was sometimes quite tough, as it was usually a temporary arrangement and the kids were sometimes quite difficult to manage, as she looked after teenagers. She had a teenage son who was really understanding and great with the kids they took in. My heart really went out to her that she would do this.
  • SunInVirgoSunInVirgo Posts: 52 ✭✭
    @Practical_Severard I am not sure that the most of rich people are enought generous and kind to spend their money on charity or adopt orphans. Often money encourage a wealthy person to treat other people as flies, if those don't have big money or power. Especially taking in account that the tradition of charity was interrupted in Russia by the revolution of 1917.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    This guy looks happy. "Showing once again why he’s the most down to earth movie star around, Hong Kong film legend Chow Yun-fat reportedly lives on just HK$800 ($102) a month, saving up his money so that one day he can leave it all to charity."

    https://shanghai.ist/2018/10/15/chow-yun-fat-lives-on-just-100-a-month-will-leave-entire-714-million-fortune-to-charity/?fbclid=IwAR1pCgysHhjxor8wTxTfF6VomjvhaPLrzewRFE04T8xRSHqVHyaI_1RnK6Y



    What a star!
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭✭

    @Practical_Severard I am not sure that the most of rich people are enought generous and kind to spend their money on charity or adopt orphans. Often money encourage a wealthy person to treat other people as flies, if those don't have big money or power. Especially taking in account that the tradition of charity was interrupted in Russia by the revolution of 1917.

    I'm not acquainted to the majority of them, of course, but my employer has charity expenses in the books as well as there is effort contribution. Taking into account the recent publicity of charity projects in the public space I beg to differ with you, though.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    @SunInVirgo I think the more money a person has, it sometimes goes to their head and they feel powerful and can be condescending. However I have met others who are not at all like this.

    Increasingly companies are doing a very good job of helping the local community or giving a proportion of their profits to charity.
  • SunInVirgoSunInVirgo Posts: 52 ✭✭
    Of course @mheredge , not all rich people are arrogant and greedy. There were and are such the rich who help the needy. In the above post you have given a good example of a generous man, Chow Yun-fat. I also think that Warren Buffett is a good example of the rich people who are ready to donate their really big money to charity. But let's see on such men as Jeff Bezos, for example. This, frankly speaking, repulsive man obviously has a contrary opinion concerning filanthropy and he is famous for his greed.

    In Russia many companies are really registered in offshore countries, so taxes paid by such companies go into foreign budgets. Some of so named russian oligarchs are not tax residents of Russia. And when such people speak about their filanthropy, it sounds something like that, "Hey fellows, I donate you a million and steal a billion from you in the same time". Do they buy hapiness by money? Probably, yes. Money junkie!

    Please, don't get me wrong. Of course, these people have a full right to spend their money how they want to do it. After all, their actions are lawful. I am not a communist appealing to appropriation of a property and I am not full of resentment, just hypocrisy of some of such people is disgusting.
  • viciumartisviciumartis Posts: 65 ✭✭
    Money can buy euforia, even loyalty..dont know about that raising trend how suddenly became altruistic..from Zuckeberg, Gates and others..it looks generous but they buy maybe reputation..you know saint is a sinner too
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    I think often the richest people are far from being the happiest.

    I agree, but I think it just depends on your attitude to the money. I think people who have a lot of money are unhappy because they don't have work to go to and the social support that brings, and because they don't have to do these things they just have too long to think.
  • viciumartisviciumartis Posts: 65 ✭✭
    @GemmaRowlands
    they say too much spare time is devils time..then overthinking starts, anxiety, frustration, urhe to overeat, worries..

    always trapped between future and past, but.never enough in present state of mind
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod

    @GemmaRowlands

    they say too much spare time is devils time..then overthinking starts, anxiety, frustration, urhe to overeat, worries..



    always trapped between future and past, but.never enough in present state of mind

    I always get anxious if I have too much spare time, as I will think about lots of different things, so I think you are probably right in that respect.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    What is 'spare time'? Is this time that isn't spent working, doing housework, reading, playing music (in your case @GemmaRowlands), going for walks and so on? In that case I don't ever have any spare time.
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    What is 'spare time'? Is this time that isn't spent working, doing housework, reading, playing music (in your case @GemmaRowlands), going for walks and so on? In that case I don't ever have any spare time.

    Yes, it's time when you're sitting and there isn't anything that you "need" to do. I will have lots of it this weekend, which is a bit unusual for me, to be honest.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    I was flummoxed by the latest UK budget that seems to be helping more the well-off than the lower income earners. Though everyone benefits from a bigger personal allowance before the basic rate of tax is charged, by raising the higher rate threshold to £50,000 means that this benefits the higher income earners by a lot more. I can understand the Liberal Democrats questioning this lost income to the government is money that could have been spent in other ways to help less fortunate people. Typically a higher-rate income earner is going to be better off by over £800 a year. I wonder how much happier they will be?
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    I was flummoxed by the latest UK budget that seems to be helping more the well-off than the lower income earners. Though everyone benefits from a bigger personal allowance before the basic rate of tax is charged, by raising the higher rate threshold to £50,000 means that this benefits the higher income earners by a lot more. I can understand the Liberal Democrats questioning this lost income to the government is money that could have been spent in other ways to help less fortunate people. Typically a higher-rate income earner is going to be better off by over £800 a year. I wonder how much happier they will be?

    I think that's been the case for quite a long time, and it seems to be that the poorest of people get penalised the most - which is a shame.
  • JMAROUFJMAROUF Posts: 104 ✭✭
    according to me happiness depends on lot of parameters, such health , money , social network , if you can bind good relations ship with people , you will feel happy , other thing is the spiritual side , some people feels well when they practice religion's worship
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    I am not happy as I have spent a lot of money today.
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    JMAROUF said:

    according to me happiness depends on lot of parameters, such health , money , social network , if you can bind good relations ship with people , you will feel happy , other thing is the spiritual side , some people feels well when they practice religion's worship

    Yes I think there are lots of things that can make a difference when it comes to happiness etc, and if you are happy with all aspects of your life then you will have overall happiness.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    Not having things to worry about is what makes me happy. Of course very rich people throw money at the problem by employing people to do all the tedious jobs. I met a 'family assistant' the other day whose job is basically just about managing every aspect of a very rich person's affairs.
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    Not having things to worry about is what makes me happy. Of course very rich people throw money at the problem by employing people to do all the tedious jobs. I met a 'family assistant' the other day whose job is basically just about managing every aspect of a very rich person's affairs.

    I think you'd have to be a very lucky person not to have anything at all to worry about, but it's nice not to have any major worries about anything.
  • mheredgemheredge Posts: 40,671 ✭✭✭✭
    I find that when I was living in Nepal, I had a lot less to worry about. Life is much simpler.
  • GemmaRowlandsGemmaRowlands Moderator Posts: 10,331 mod
    mheredge said:

    I find that when I was living in Nepal, I had a lot less to worry about. Life is much simpler.

    That sounds good to me! I find that there is far too much to worry about here, and so many different pressures from all angles.
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